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nathan1e

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: nathan1e
Honeybadger Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#1
Before you start reading this post - no, I'm not going to criticise the way bans are handled, I'm not going to talk about the countless protocols that are followed when someone is banned, and I'm definitely not going to talk about the rules page.

What I want to talk about is the message that players get when they are banned. Currently, this message looks as follows:
You have been banned from the server for: [reason] Unfairly banned? Appeal at https://www.potterworldmc.com/banappeals
There are 2 things in this message that I would like to talk about: The [reason] part and the message itself.

1. Reason
There are plenty of reasons why players can be banned. However, simply naming the rule that was broken usually doesn't do a good job at making a player understand why they were banned. A few examples:
If a player is banned for "swearing", it helps to say "You have been banned for breaking the "no swearing" rule 3 times", rather than saying "You have been banned for swearing". Adding a bit more context, e.g. saying "swearing in housing chat", also helps to make a player understand why they were banned.

I've seen cases where [reason] was "breaking your unban conditions". This is in no way a clarification as to why a player has been banned, because unban conditions usually consist of the single sentence "if you break any of the rules, you'll be perm banned again". In other words, it could have been any rule. If the relevant player wasn't even aware of breaking the rule (which can happen in some cases!) it is completely unclear why this player was banned.

2. The message itself
I think there are a lot of things that could be improved about the message itself. First of all, I've seen a lot of players who, after getting banned, simply don't know what to do next. They have questions regarding the situation that has lead to their ban and questions regarding their next actions. However, the ban message has nothing to point them in the direction of the right places to ask such questions, which often leads to players asking those questions in places where they're not welcome - in fact, places where they're against the rules. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, when it comes to that, I think it's necessary to add some sort of indication as to where players can ask questions about their bans. I'm assuming this would be a link to support tickets. If players are directed to support tickets through their ban appeals, it decreases the chance of them asking questions about their bans in places such as the PW discord, which leads to less moderation being required...


Right, sorry, back to the topic at hand...

Next up, we have the last 2 sentences of the ban message: "Unfairly banned? Appeal at [link]"
I think the wording of these sentences could be improved. Right now it seems to suggest that players are only allowed to appeal if they have been unfairly banned, but I've seen plenty of cases where players were fairly banned while still succesfully appealing their bans. Think of situations like:
Player has been banned for a long amount of time -> ban was fair, but in most such situations, the player gets unbanned through an appeal as there's been plenty of time to self-reflect and learn from past mistakes.
Player was banned permanently, but after the appeal, the ban was shortened to a temp ban -> again, ban was fair, but the staff team decided that, given the situation and the details of the situation that the player gave through their appeal, it was fair to decrease their punishment.

All in all I think there's enough reason to change the wording of this sentence. I think it should just be one sentence, something like "You can appeal your ban at [link]" as this doesn't imply that players can ONLY appeal if their ban was unfair. But that's just my idea, if anyone else has another idea, I'd love to hear it.

3. Empathy
Okay, so I said at the start that I was going to talk about 2 main things regarding the ban message. I've done that now, but there is a third (and final) point that I would like to talk about in this forum post, which is about the way staff communicates with players when it comes to bans.

I've seen plenty of conversations between a banned player and a staff member, and in all those cases I feel like there is a lot of empathy missing from the staff member's side. Right now, staff members are trying to come off as "professional" by talking to banned players in a very unpersonal manner. The situation at hand is treated like an ordinary situation, as for staff members, bans are just one of those things that happen on a daily basis. Nothing changes from their point of view, they just answer a player's questions and call it a day. But for a player, they recently lost acces to a server that usually means a lot to them: it is their escape from reality, their place to make friends, hang out with friends and just generally have a good time. More often than not this causes an unusual amount of stress for a person.

What I propose is that, when talking to a player who has been banned, staff members attempt to be more empathetic towards the banned player by indicating that the player is in an uncomfortable position, while also maybe giving some tips or tricks to help the player deal with the situation.

TL;DR
1. Ban reasons could be a lot more detailed.
2. I think the ban message template should change, including a link to website support tickets if players have questions and omitting the "Unfairly banned?" question.
3. I feel like staff members could be a whole lot more empathetic towards players when talking about bans.

Thanks for reading!
 

FlatJambo

Graduate
Minecraft IGN: FlatJambo
Honeybadger Auralock
#3
I've never been banned, but 2 dear friends of mine have. One misspelled a word and got banned for swearing while the other was caught using a client other than Labymod and got banned. Both of them had their bans successfully removed, but the one who was banned for using the client had a much different experience than the one who swore by accident.

The one using Badlion reported being repeatedly ignored and being talked down to by staff. He told me all of the staff he talked to were being rude to him and not hearing him out, telling him that he broke the rules and to not argue back. It took him a long time to finally get his ban removed.

However, the one who swore on accident had her ban immediately repealed because the staff member she contacted was her friend. There was no debating or anything.

This suggestion would definitely help to prevent this. I feel that more in-depth reasoning for being banned would be beneficial and easier to talk to staff about.
 

Honey_Dwarf1

Archivist
Minecraft IGN: Honey_Dwarf1
Phoenix Raven
#4
I also find that the rule against talking about bans means that players who have never been banned never find out how it works and the whole system seems so much less transparent. I know a few players who have been banned, but they never get to talk about it in case their chances of an unban goes down. It seems so much moire transparent on the whole to not have that rule - most servers don't have it, and it doesn't create a negative environment. The amount of emphasis placed on a positive environment can make people who have been banned very toxic
 

luckiestblock

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: luckiestblock
Honeybadger
#5
I also find that the rule against talking about bans means that players who have never been banned never find out how it works and the whole system seems so much less transparent.
This is super important to me.
The process of removing a player from the server should be a public, transparent process. The only real things this rule accomplishes are making players unaware of the processes and shielding staff from any criticism of mistakes from incorrect/messy bans. I understand that one of the main reasons (other then "positivity") it is in place is to prevent staff from being harassed but frankly harassment is a separate already stated rule so that wouldn't be a issue.
It also should be noted that the rule itself is embedded in fine print in another rule that seems self explanatory enough not to read the fine print (Positivity). I finally wanted to say that to me at least the rule does not encourage positivity. It is another things for moderators to warn players about and it encourages wild rumors that are predominantly more negative then what the truth is.
 

Motionic

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: Motionic
Dark Follower Griffin Vampire
#6
Hello @nathan1e! Thank you so much for taking the time to write out this incredibly detailed suggestion! I will bring this up with the poltergeists and we will discuss it further. I will get back to you with our decisions on these changes once they have been reached! Have a wonderful day
 
#7
I've never been banned, but 2 dear friends of mine have. One misspelled a word and got banned for swearing while the other was caught using a client other than Labymod and got banned. Both of them had their bans successfully removed, but the one who was banned for using the client had a much different experience than the one who swore by accident.

The one using Badlion reported being repeatedly ignored and being talked down to by staff. He told me all of the staff he talked to were being rude to him and not hearing him out, telling him that he broke the rules and to not argue back. It took him a long time to finally get his ban removed.

However, the one who swore on accident had her ban immediately repealed because the staff member she contacted was her friend. There was no debating or anything.

This suggestion would definitely help to prevent this. I feel that more in-depth reasoning for being banned would be beneficial and easier to talk to staff about.
i agree
 
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Yvvyx

New Magician
Minecraft IGN: Yvvyx
Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#8
I completely agree with all of this. You managed to describe the examples of situations perfectly. When I got banned I was very confused, when I reached out to staff they were still very vague and unclear about the exact reasons I was banned. They mentioned one specific reason and "more pieces of evidence", which they did not explain to me at all. This hits very close to home for me and I'm glad that someone has decided to step up and say something about it.
 

Jada

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: JustJada
Auralock Raven VIP
#9
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback and suggestions!

Ultimately, this suggestion has unfortunately been declined. We feel as if the current ban screen effectively informs and directs players to the correct place. The message suggested to replace the current would not be applicable for all situations, meanwhile, what we have now is more universal. For the suggestion regarding changing the reason, most bans are delivered as a result of cumulative offenses and not a single instance so it is highly likely that the player would already be aware they were breaking a rule and that led to their ban. The ban tags we use now for such instances can be related directly to the rules found on our rules page so we do not feel there is a current need to change our tags. We also do not openly state after how many occurrences of an offense a player receives a certain consequence so we would not mention this in the ban tag either. In cases of immediate bans, they are always for serious offenses and players should know what they are being banned for. As for the breaking appeal conditions ban tag, the conditions are outlined in a response to their appeal but if they would like further information they can reach out to a moderation member for more specifications.

Additionally, support tickets are not the place to appeal bans- the ban screen provides the link to the appeal form which is a completely acceptable place to ask questions about their ban. Under the circumstance a player does mistakenly bring it up somewhere else they’ll simply be redirected to either a Lead Prefect+ or asked to submit a ban appeal, depending on the scenario. Therefore, we will not be changing ban messages, as we feel that they effectively get the point across. And for the point regarding empathy, there is not much a moderation member can do on their own in these situations- discussing the ban of a player should be kept mostly within an appeal so the complete story and all that the player wants to say can be found and evaluated in one place. Therefore in most situations, the most help a staff member can give is direction as to how to submit an appeal and answer questions about the appeal process if there are any. Any responses that may be perceived as “unempathetic” are more likely to just be misinterpreted professionalism; coming off as impersonal is never intended but staff members are just doing their best to have the scenario properly dealt with. Again, thank you for taking the time to leave feedback and suggestions- they’re always very appreciated.
 
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