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Adding Team Quests

Salmandingo

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Salmandingo
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix Vampire VIP Werewolf SPEW
#1
EDIT: There are many different opinions in the thread so I would recommend reading everyone's responses
The Quests on PW are really fun (especially the graduate quests)
However, all the quests can be done solo, which got me thinking, What if we add a few "Team Quests"


Team Quests would require the players participating to be in a party, a party which has exactly the number of required members, not more or less. So if a quest needs 2 players, the party can only be 2 players, not 1, not 3, etc...

These Quests would require equal efforts from both sides to complete, let's say one player has to search for hidden items/clues while the other has to hunt down creatures in order to defend the other player. Another simple idea could be a boss fight, or a escape room quest...

The quest cannot be finished by only one player in the team, and the players at the end would receive equal rewards. Another cool thing would be a "friendship bracelet" collectible or some form of collectible that we can receive which we can keep after working together with our friends to finish certain quests.

I'm not that good at suggesting quest ideas (i'm more of an academics type of guy) but I'm sure you get the point by now...
How cool would it be if you and your squad join a party and hangout on voice chat while doing some group quests in groups of 4/5/6 etc...


When the new graduate quests came out, me and my friends got on voice chat and did them all together, but it would have been way cooler if there was actually more interaction between us within our quests.

(I'm aware that these new kind of quests might be difficult to implement and would likely take a really long time, but there is be no reason to rush)

Yeah I guess that's it thanks for reading comment below what you think :)
 
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nathan1e

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: nathan1e
Honeybadger Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#2
I disagree, and I'll try to explain why.

Currently, GTA V is at the very top of my steam games with a total amount of 332 hours. (And before anyone comments with "those are rookie numbers", I mostly play minecraft rather than any other game and steam or minecraft itself unfortunately does not show how much time I've spent playing it.) I really enjoyed playing through the singleplayer part of this game, finishing missions, seeing the weird storyline unfold in front of my eyes. Also the fact that you could add your own personal music to the game files and have that play on any vehicle's radio was a big win for me. I tried to play the multiplayer version of the game, but was in for a big disappointment. Missions have to be completed by a team of people, so rather than going through it by yourself and doing it in your own pace, your own tempo on your own skill level you're dependent on the skill levels of the other players. I stopped playing GTA V multiplayer once I got stuck on this one mission; every time I tried it, one of my team members would die one too many times, causing the other team members to ragequit.

Focussing more on PW, if there would be quests that could only be completed by people who are in a party I see that this would add an extra challenge to this quest: having to find competent enough people to finish the quest with you. And this can be extremely challenging and is something that I believe will eventually drive some people away from this server. Currently, all quests can be completed on your own and if you're not skilled enough for a quest, you can leave it as is and try again at any other time, depending on how skilled you are and when you want to do it. But if you have finally found a competent enough team (which will be a true challenge) then you'd need to find a time and a place to do it, where everyone needs to stay online for the entire duration of doing that quest. Going AFK wouldn't be an option, because that would leave all the other team members stranded in the middle of this quest. Yet, people have lives, they have to go AFK at some points, which will inevitably cause too many ragequits.

So yeah, TL;DR: I don't like this idea because I think for some people it will be too difficult to find a competent enough group of people willing and able to stay online and non-AFK for the entire duration of a quest.
 

Salmandingo

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Salmandingo
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix Vampire VIP Werewolf SPEW
#4
I don't like this idea because I think for some people it will be too difficult to find a competent enough group of people willing and able to stay online and non-AFK for the entire duration of a quest.
I don't think this is an issue at all. Just like most students on Potterworld commit for 1 hour classes over and over and over again, a 20 to 30 minute quest shouldn't be an issue either. Going AFK during the quest is an option, taking breaks during the quest is an option. Doing that in classes isn't.

You can take your sweet time with the quest, you can try multiple times, you could explore and there would be no consequence. While in classes, (where most people glue themselves to their seats for the full hour with no problem) it's actually more of a commitment than these quests are.

Finding a "competent enough team" shouldn't be that much of an issue. Firstly, in challenges and tournaments, finding a team is almost never an issue and you can just pair up with whoever doesn't have a team. This team sticks together for the full 2 hour duration of some challenges/tournaments. I don't see how a 30 minute team quest can be an issue, as most quests can be done in wayy less time (even the graduate quests, persumably the most difficult, don't take that much time)

Finding a "competent enough team" also won't be a problem because the quests aren't overly difficult. Most of these quests can be completed easily, and for the ones that are a bit harder, you have /ch qc (quests chat) to ask, or you could use /t create if no players are able to help you.

To conclude & sum up:

I get where you're coming from but these team quests would be equally as difficult as the regular quests (which hint, are not difficult) and it wouldn't be an issue at all to find another player who is willing to spend 20-30 minutes on an easy and fun quest with when you can just ask in quests chat or ask one of your many friends in game. Commitment wouldn't be a recurring issue since most of the players commit to one hour classes frequently with no issue.


As a class helper, I can assure you that I rarely get messages from players that want to go AFK during class, and most of the time, even new players on their first class will still be competent enough to write a decent assignment and use the /turnin and /rh command without a problem, along with interacting with the various NPCs and following class rules.

So the point is, commitment, difficulty, duration, and finding teammates shouldn't be too much of an issue in simple quests when none of these are an issue in 1 hour classes and 1-2 hour challenges/tournaments

Yes, there will be some teammates that aren't good at the game and might go AFK on you randomly. All it takes is for you to disband the party and find another teammate and I can guarantee you that it won't be a hassle 95% of the time. These kinds of quests can get random people on the server to become friends and would actually increase the engagement between players rather than make the quests seem like a solo task, when in reality, the server regularly has hundreds of players.
 

nathan1e

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: nathan1e
Honeybadger Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#6
I don't think this is an issue at all. Just like most students on Potterworld commit for 1 hour classes over and over and over again, a 20 to 30 minute quest shouldn't be an issue either. Going AFK during the quest is an option, taking breaks during the quest is an option. Doing that in classes isn't.
There's an extremely big difference between committing to a 1 hour class and committing to a 20-30 minute quest. Classes don't require full attention, most of the time, the notes can simply be ignored or read in a different wording from the internet in a smaller amount of time than it takes for the professor to copy-paste them. Even when writing an assignment people can easily just go to the toilet or something irl idk, whereas during a quest your teammates constantly need you.


Besides which, you're assuming that quests take 20-30 minutes for everyone, but I simply think this is not the case. Some people will require a longer period of time to come to terms with what they have to do, where they have to go, that sort of thing. What takes 20-30 minutes for you might as well take several hours for other players.


You can take your sweet time with the quest, you can try multiple times, you could explore and there would be no consequence. While in classes, (where most people glue themselves to their seats for the full hour with no problem) it's actually more of a commitment than these quests are.
Yet in every class it happens that before the class is over, a bunch of people leave. Not the majority, but still a bunch of people. You simply cannot assume that because classes exist, every single player will be able to commit to an activity that lasts around an hour, because that is simply not realistic. And again, people can go AFK during classes at any time without consequence as well. Unless it's during the AFK check, profs or helpers won't even notice, and if you're back in time for the assignment you can still get the normal amount of ACs.


Finding a "competent enough team" shouldn't be that much of an issue. Firstly, in challenges and tournaments, finding a team is almost never an issue and you can just pair up with whoever doesn't have a team. This team sticks together for the full 2 hour duration of some challenges/tournaments. I don't see how a 30 minute team quest can be an issue, as most quests can be done in wayy less time (even the graduate quests, persumably the most difficult, don't take that much time)
"Just pairing up with whoever doesn't have a team" is not at all a great strategy of actually finding a team or winning a challenge or tournament, for that matter. This is explaining how it's not difficult to find a team whereas I specifically referred to a competent enough team. It would require a huge amount of luck to find a team who is competent enough simply by looking for people who don't have a team yet.


And again, you're assuming that literally everyone can do these quests in a mere 30 minutes. Some people take longer, not everyone finds these quests equally easy. If you look around on this forum there's all sorts of people complaining about the difficulty of certain quests, how they dislike the presence of parkour. I'm not much of a parkour hater myself but I can really see where they're coming from. Adding on more layers of difficulty like having to find a competent enough team will, as I believe, only cause more people to be angry at quests, cause more such complaint posts to be made on the forums and I don't think that's a very good thing.




Finding a "competent enough team" also won't be a problem because the quests aren't overly difficult. Most of these quests can be completed easily, and for the ones that are a bit harder, you have /ch qc (quests chat) to ask, or you could use /t create if no players are able to help you.

This again does not really solve the issue of finding a competent enough team. Yes, finding teams themselves can be easy enough by just asking around but I'm really referring to teams that are able to cooperatively solve a quest. If you'd argue that such quests wouldn't have to be too difficult, then what's the point of making it team-based? Surely it feels rather anticlimactic to do a quest with a team only for that quest to be super easy? And if you'd argue that it would have certain elements of difficulty, then again it would add another element of difficulty to these quests of having to find teammates that are physically able to do the tasks that such a quest would present.


Also, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but are you really implying that if people are unable to find a team at all, they create an in-game ticket? What does the moderation team have to do with players being unable to find a team? Surely they're busy enough as it is, reporting bugs and answering general questions to also be involved in finding a team for a player?


To conclude & sum up:


I get where you're coming from but these team quests would be equally as difficult as the regular quests (which hint, are not difficult) and it wouldn't be an issue at all to find another player who is willing to spend 20-30 minutes on an easy and fun quest with when you can just ask in quests chat or ask one of your many friends in game. Commitment wouldn't be a recurring issue since most of the players commit to one hour classes frequently with no issue.

Again, don’t assume quests are not difficult when you experienced them as such. They can be incredibly difficult for other players. And again, got nothing to do with just finding someone willing to do that quest with you, it’s finding a player who’s capable enough of finishing that quest by staying active throughout the entire duration of the quest (which can vary greatly for different players) and by having the necessary skillset (or gear set) to complete the quest.


As a class helper, I can assure you that I rarely get messages from players that want to go AFK during class, and most of the time, even new players on their first class will still be competent enough to write a decent assignment and use the /turnin and /rh command without a problem, along with interacting with the various NPCs and following class rules.
This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. The fact that you rarely see such messages in no way or form implies that players rarely go AFK throughout classes. I sometimes have to go AFK during class because I’m needed IRL, but since that is the case I don’t get time to notify the prof or CH about this. The point is that you simply cannot assume players don’t go AFK during classes when you as CH don’t see them go AFK, because quite frankly, that stuff happens in front of your nose without you even noticing.


Also being competent enough to write a decent assignment in class has nothing to do with being competent enough to do a difficult quest, it can take a lot of time and hard work to get a gear set that’s needed to fight a specific mob whereas classes don’t have any such requirements.


So the point is, commitment, difficulty, duration, and finding teammates shouldn't be too much of an issue in simple quests when none of these are an issue in 1 hour classes and 1-2 hour challenges/tournaments

So far the only thing you’ve said is that commitment will be ensured simply because players are able to attend classes (which has nothing to do with being active for a full hour, as said, players can go AFK unnoticed), quests aren’t difficult (which varies greatly throughout the playerbase and thus quests can’t simply be deemed “difficult” or “not difficult”), finding teammates is no problem (which I agree with, but again, this completely ignores the notion of finding competent enough teammates) and none of these (as pointed out between brackets) really solve the issues I listed earlier.


Yes, there will be some teammates that aren't good at the game and might go AFK on you randomly. All it takes is for you to disband the party and find another teammate and I can guarantee you that it won't be a hassle 95% of the time. These kinds of quests can get random people on the server to become friends and would actually increase the engagement between players rather than make the quests seem like a solo task, when in reality, the server regularly has hundreds of players.

What exactly do you base this guarantee off? Is there anything to support this claim? In my previous response I referred to my own experiences in a different game, where it became extremely obvious that any mission that was too difficult for some people ended up in a bunch of ragequits. After reading your response to mine I am simply still not convinced that the same won’t happen in PW, if these kinds of quests were added.


PS. Apologies for the removal of any formatting, the website was glitching out colors all over the place so I had to finish writing this reply in google docs then copy-paste it into the website again.
 

Salmandingo

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Salmandingo
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix Vampire VIP Werewolf SPEW
#7
What takes 20-30 minutes for you might as well take several hours for other players.
That's a decent point. I spoke about it here:

You can take your sweet time with the quest, you can try multiple times, you could explore and there would be no consequence. While in classes, (where most people glue themselves to their seats for the full hour with no problem) it's actually more of a commitment than these quests are.
I apologize for poorly phrasing my response about quest durations before. What I mean to say is that quests that take (on average) 20 minutes to complete, can last for longer if needed, you can try multiple times and you can go afk and return later to try again. You are also able to use quests chat to get help from the "competent enough" players aswell as using the ticket system. If a quest is taking you several hours of commitment (which most quests shouldn't, given the various options you have to get help) then you can just skip it. It's not a requirement to do these team quests given that they are implemented but it adds a new team activity to the game which can be done.

And again, people can go AFK during classes at any time without consequence as well. Unless it's during the AFK check, profs or helpers won't even notice, and if you're back in time for the assignment you can still get the normal amount of ACs.
People that skip the notes and go AFK throughout won't get very far with their assignments. It's not common for students to get a high grade without good understanding of the notes. But that is not the point i'm trying to get to.

My point is the following: Seeing as most players have no problem committing an hour of their time over and over and over again for classes, finding people that will commit anywhere between 20 mins to 2 hours (in the rare case that nobody is able to help and you end up scrambling for 2 hours to finish the quest) will still not be an issue most of the time. We cannot base the whole premise of the argument on exceptions. Most people do not AFK during classes and though its possible, they would only be doing themselves harm by ending up with a lower quality assignment and less of a reward.

In terms of quest difficulty, according to Flip (the Head of Game Design) in Here , "Looking into our data, roughly 83% of players who have started this quest end up completing it, and, as this quest has a very high reward relative to other quests in the same level range, we are not concerned with the difficulty of the course at this time. "
This was mentioned to a player that brought up concerns with a really difficult quest that has high rewards. Seeing as most people who try the quest are able to complete it, and taking into account that this is considered one of the more difficult quests, having a team quest with average difficulty will
overwhelmingly be complete-able by most people who attempt it.

From your response I can see you brought up many points that opened up my eyes on certain issues I didn't think of. And I'm really appreciative of that. But i'm literally only asking for a few team quests that are very easy and completely optional and can offer a cool collectible then what's the harm in trying? Surely a quest can't be impossibly difficult when you have tons of tools to get help and the quests are designed in a way so that they are completed by the overwhelming majority of players that try them.

To be clear, I am not asking for all future quests to be team based, as that would upset a major portion of the player base. I am requesting for a few (maybe 3-4) additional quests that can be done in teams. I am basing my argument off the general trends and even though rare exceptions exist, the quests after all will still be optional and will be an extremely low minority among the 90% of quests which can be done solo. When I brought up the topic of classes, I referred to new players on their first class still being "competent" enough to join queue, ask questions, follow rules, write a proper assignment and notes and interact with the various commands/NPCs.. So if most of the players are able to do this well in classes, they should be able to do an easy quest with another player. (I realize that classes and quests are very different, but the level of competence is overwhelmingly high for players and I'm using classes as an example because that's my field. Classes can be way more difficult than most quests sometimes and take much more effort)

I see way more harm than good in my suggestion and I'm still open to feedback but ultimately I'm sticking with my stance. I would love to hear all opinions but also some opinions from Game Design Staff as they are the ones that actually implement quests.

And finally,
Also, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but are you really implying that if people are unable to find a team at all, they create an in-game ticket? What does the moderation team have to do with players being unable to find a team?
yep that is a misunderstanding. I was talking about how you could use /t create if you can't figure out a quest (even though it's recommended to try multiple times in /ch qc first) but not use /t create if you need a teammate for a quest.
 
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Honey_Dwarf1

Archivist
Minecraft IGN: Honey_Dwarf1
Phoenix Raven
#8
But why do we always need friends? Especially with the new tournaments, we really need active and good friends in order to do these things, since playing a quest with random people is never going to be as fun.
 

Miss_Strudel

Animorphus
Staff
Minecraft IGN: Miss_Strudel
Honeybadger Auralock Dark Follower Staff Vampire Werewolf Lead Game Designer SPEW Lead
#9
I’d like to share my opinion on this as someone that works on quests. I think the concept itself is extremely fun. Part of the reason why I’ve loved playing through certain past event gameplay is because I’d get in vc with my friends and we’d all run through a maze together or work together to solve an escape room etc. Even though it’s solo content, it’s just more fun to do it with friends. Having gameplay where you actually work together would make this even more enjoyable.

There are, however, some complications. The current way we make quests is confined to one player, so this would require a lot of work from dev and I’m unsure of how high it would be in the priority list. Assuming that dev is able to do this though, there’s also the issue that quests are one-time completion. For the first few weeks it would be fun and players would be able to find groups as no one has completed it. However as time progresses, the portion of the player base that has not completed it and wants to complete it gets smaller and smaller. For this reason I think if we pursue this, it may be better suited as an optional part of an event instead of permanent world content. Even then I do see players complaining if they don’t know others on the server and don’t have someone to do it with. With the dungeons that Flip has confirmed as planned for the future, bosses will be able to be defeated multiple times, which eliminates the issue of finding others that haven’t yet completed it.

Overall I like the idea of doing gameplay with friends, though I think dungeons generally work better for this as they’re repeatable. Co-op quests would require new quest tech and may be better suited to temporary content unless they are made to be repeatable.
 

Pankakes

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Pankakes_81
Griffin
#10
Missions have to be completed by a team of people, so rather than going through it by yourself and doing it in your own pace, your own tempo on your own skill level you're dependent on the skill levels of the other players. I stopped playing GTA V multiplayer once I got stuck on this one mission; every time I tried it, one of my team members would die one too many times, causing the other team members to ragequit.
And
What exactly do you base this guarantee off? Is there anything to support this claim? In my previous response I referred to my own experiences in a different game, where it became extremely obvious that any mission that was too difficult for some people ended up in a bunch of ragequits. After reading your response to mine I am simply still not convinced that the same won’t happen in PW, if these kinds of quests were added.
I STRONGLY disagree with the comparison to GTA 5. In GTA 5, there's way too many people that want to ruin the fun, dying on purpose, running into enemies, basically, making the Heists unbearable.

However if you want to compare and something to support the claim that it won't happen, there's another game... Sea Of Thieves

In Sea of Thieves, you can play solo, duo, trio or even with four people. All quests can be done the same way regardless of how many players there are, however, to make it harder for groups, the HP of bosses scales with the number of players.

Certain quests may take even longer than 1 hour like PW classes, since the sea is unpredictable and you may have to fight a ship or two, or even a shark on the way to sell the quest items.

And in case you don't have friends to play with you can either choose an Open Crew = Basically matchmaking with randoms
Or
You can go to Sea of Thieves Discrd, where there's a dedicated channel for "Looking for Crew" #LFC

I have played with at least 50 different people from LFC, not a single time was it the way it is in GTA 5, like you describe it. Every single time players either knew what to do on a ship or if they didn't, they learned quickly, communicated and didn't go AFK unless a few times when they had to leave.

Comparing PW to a game full of cheaters (on PC) and people who kill you just for the sake and expecting the same here seems unfair.

Edit, pic:
1603981102650.png
 

Grace

Graduate
Minecraft IGN: PinkWeezie
Honeybadger Auralock Vampire SPEW
#11
Heya!

Thank you so much for your suggestion and everyone who put their input here. I've read over all the comments and will be bringing this idea up with the rest of the Poltergeists. I'll be sure to include a lot of the thoughts brought up here when discussing it and once a decision has been made I will let you know! Again thank you, and have an amazing day!
 

Grace

Graduate
Minecraft IGN: PinkWeezie
Honeybadger Auralock Vampire SPEW
#13
Heya @Salmandingo!

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I have brought your idea up with the leadership team and I am pleased to let you know that your idea has been accepted! We really loved the concept of team quests as many players have wanted to complete quests with their friends. However, we have quite a few tech restraints at the moment so it is going to take a bit of time before these are actually implemented. We are currently trying to figure out how to implement these, but keep an eye out for the future!

As mentioned earlier, we are also planning on releasing dungeons which have a similar concept to these as well! Again, thank you for your suggestion as we love to read every idea for the server. Hope you have an amazing day!