Let's Talk; Dark Lord

[FTen]

Hello Wizards!

I am Max or FTen and I shall start to post these weekly debates within this forum to try and get a bit of debate going about the Harry Potter world. Now I joined on the 14th of June and immediatly stated my support for the Dark Lord. I want to know the community split. So on the poll above please vote above either For or Against the Dark Lord.

Happy Spelling.

Max.

 

[Honey_Dwarf1]

It could definitely be interesting to get more discussion here!

I'm against the Dark Lord mostly because of his methods. I don't generally have a problem with people who openly are against the Ministry, but the Dark Lord's methods involved a lot of unnecessary death and the wizarding world got a look at what it would be like if he was in charge, and it seemed filled with fear because he and his followers were so brutal.

 

[FTen]

It could definitely be interesting to get more discussion here!

I'm against the Dark Lord mostly because of his methods. I don't generally have a problem with people who openly are against the Ministry, but the Dark Lord's methods involved a lot of unnecessary death and the wizarding world got a look at what it would be like if he was in charge, and it seemed filled with fear because he and his followers were so brutal.

Could you argue that his way was the way to freedom to express who you are. Neither side is perfect, however labelling someone who wanted to express themselves and have an opinion different to the others is what made him feared, his methods were the way to best accomplish his goal. Like a Hiker would pick the easier route to get to the top of the mountain.

 

[River Woodlyn]

I love the Dark Lord because he adopted me and he's just so kind. And he's the amazing family head of the Crestellos which is an amazing fam and I love all members and Joel is just amazing ;w;

 

[Scoobydoolego]

I disagree with what the Dark Lord did. It's fine to oppose the Ministry or feel like Muggles were taking over the world, but, as Daisy said, the way that he got there was despicable. He had no need to overthrow the Ministry, merely get people who he agreed with elected. Tom Riddle was a prominent member of Wizarding Society, and most likely could have been elected Minister himself. However, his desire for absolute power over everyone around him pushed you know who to instead try to overthrow the Ministry.

Max had a very insightful point about how the Dark Lord was feared because he wanted to change and he used cruelty to get there faster. However, you could say the same thing about Harry. After the fourth book, people began to fear him because he was an enemy of the Ministry. However, instead of starting a rival group like you know who, he tried to work with the Ministry whenever possible to achieve the change he desired.

 

[Honey_Dwarf1]

Could you argue that his way was the way to freedom to express who you are. Neither side is perfect, however labelling someone who wanted to express themselves and have an opinion different to the others is what made him feared, his methods were the way to best accomplish his goal. Like a Hiker would pick the easier route to get to the top of the mountain.

I see what you mean and maybe he was partly feared because his ideas were very different, but I think there was a big difference between a hiker taking the easiest route up and the Dark Lord's actions - specifically that a hiker isn't causing problems when it takes an easier route. The Dark Lord, however, was killing people and forcing people into hiding.
Just to check - are we talking about you know who or the PW dark lord?

 

[FTen]

I disagree with what the Dark Lord did. It's fine to oppose the Ministry or feel like Muggles were taking over the world, but, as Daisy said, the way that he got there was despicable. He had no need to overthrow the Ministry, merely get people who he agreed with elected. Tom Riddle was a prominent member of Wizarding Society, and most likely could have been elected Minister himself. However, his desire for absolute power over everyone around him pushed you know who to instead try to overthrow the Ministry.

Max had a very insightful point about how the Dark Lord was feared because he wanted to change and he used cruelty to get there faster. However, you could say the same thing about Harry. After the fourth book, people began to fear him because he was an enemy of the Ministry. However, instead of starting a rival group like you know who, he tried to work with the Ministry whenever possible to achieve the change he desired.

Harry is JUST as much as a person to be feared as The Dark Lord. Think about it like this, Rufus was killed defending Harry and then Harry went behind the Ministry which was legitimate. It's like me turning around to the community and saying well I don't like how this is now, I am going to attempt treason. The Dark Lord was the better Wizard. Always will be. Harry got very lucky.

 

[FTen]

I see what you mean and maybe he was partly feared because his ideas were very different, but I think there was a big difference between a hiker taking the easiest route up and the Dark Lord's actions - specifically that a hiker isn't causing problems when it takes an easier route. The Dark Lord, however, was killing people and forcing people into hiding.
Just to check - are we talking about you know who or the PW dark lord?

I see no difference; Keeping with the Hiker here, There are two Hikers one who does it quickly and the one who does it properly. Voldermort saw his people (Pure Bloods) and he acted quickly, Harry saw Muggleborns and decided that they needed more rights and thus took a route that nearly cost everyone in contact with him death.

 

[Scoobydoolego]

The Dark Lord was the better Wizard. Always will be. Harry got very lucky.

I'm not sure if by better wizard you mean better at magic or better morally. I'll agree with the first one but not the second. When did you ever see Harry murder or torture someone for fun? He used Unforgivable Curses 4 times in the entire series: he used Imperio on two goblins in Gringotts to get Honeybadger's cup, and used Crucio on Bellatrix after killing Sirius and on Amycus Carrow for using Crucio on Hogwarts students. Although using it on the goblins was morally wrong, it was done to prevent further suffering. If he had not gotten the Horcrux to kill you know who, then many more people would have been killed, not to mention every single Muggle being treated like an animal. The other two instances were out of anger and to get revenge. Like using Imperio, these were not right. However, Harry was not in his right mind.

Compare this to you know who. He killed Charity Burbage because he believed her to be teaching Hogwarts students incorrectly. When did Harry ever murder someone for disagreeing with him? He rarely ever killed people, and if he did, it was in self-defense. One of his worst acts was attempting to kill Harry. At the time, Harry was just an innocent baby, completely defenseless. you know who had no reason to kill him except for his hatred of Lily and James. I challenge you to find anything remotely close to that that Harry ever did.

Voldermort saw his people (Pure Bloods) and he acted quickly, Harry saw Muggleborns and decided that they needed more rights and thus took a route that nearly cost everyone in contact with him death.

Harry did try to protect Muggleborns and give them more rights just as you know who tried to protect Purebloods. As I keep saying, the difference is in how they approach this goal. Harry does not torture and kill people who get in his way or view everyone who isn't the group he chose to protect as inferior.

 

[FTen]

"When did Harry ever murder someone for disagreeing with him? " The Dark Lord was killed by Harry.

 

[Scoobydoolego]

"When did Harry ever murder someone for disagreeing with him? " The Dark Lord was killed by Harry.

Perhaps that was part of it, but that was definitely not the only reason Harry killed you know who. The main reason was revenge and the fact that you know who was dangerous to the wellbeing of him and his loved ones. I don't think it's fair to compare you know who's death to that of Charity Burbage.

 

[FTen]

Perhaps that was part of it, but that was definitely not the only reason Harry killed you know who. The main reason was revenge and the fact that you know who was dangerous to the wellbeing of him and his loved ones. I don't think it's fair to compare you know who's death to that of Charity Burbage.

I think it should be perfectly normal to judge on the character of a person based on his actions so let's judge Harry;

Griffindor because he asked, he was brave enough to ask.

He defeated the Dark Lord in another body in year one, after violently ending the life of a professor.

He beat a memory of Tom Riddle using the sword of Griffindor after Hermionie GAVE him the answers.

He helped Sirius Back escape from a wrong conviction of Murder.

He was easily manipulated by an Dark Lord servant to provide the blood for the return of the dark lord.

He was instrumental and was easily used by the Dark Lord using "Oclumency" and in turn his God Father was murdered.

As Ron said in the 8th book after he left Harry and Hermonie for dead Harrys successes came at expenses of his family.

 

[Scoobydoolego]

As Ron said in the 8th book after he left Harry and Hermonie for dead Harrys successes came at expenses of his family.

All of the statements you mentioned were true, but I don't think any of them are a detriment to his moral character.

I don't understand what him choosing Griffindor has to do with our discussion, but I'll mention in first because you did.

Although Harry killed Quirrel, it was in self-defense.

Killing the memory of Tom Riddle is a heroic achievement, not a terrible mistake. And if he received help from others, who cares?

The next thing you mention is also a great achievement of his.

Who wouldn't have been manipulated by that? When you read the book or watched the movie for the first time, did you honestly expect that Harry would be transported to the graveyard for a Dark Ritual to be performed?

Being manipulated by Occulemency isn't Harry's fault.

It is true that many of Harry's successes were at the expense of his friends, but I think if he had a choice it would have been very different. But even if that wasn't true, they would have more likely perished anyway, as many of them were members of the Order of the Phoenix out of their own choice.

 

[FTen]

Thank you for the debate!