hello all, it is me cczz / kyro
I want to preface this thread by saying that I am by no means an expert in balancing or analytics, but from the research and analysis that I have done there is a crazy amount of imbalance in loadouts.
Charms Master is the ONLY loadout used for players who play Charms/Jinx, the exceptions only being the odd few (active) duelist that use warlock for curse, and healing loadouts like medicinal master, which Charms Master does not provide any decent stats for.
In my research / inquiring active duelist that I know, 24 out of 26 (That I know or have gotten a response from) use Charms Master as their main loadout, not counting secondary loadouts which are not used competitively for obvious reasons which I will go over below.
The main issue with Charms Master : Damage.
Charms Master blatantly outclasses all of the other Charms and Jinx loadouts (there's 6 of them combined and Charms Master is the only one seeing use from those in the more competitive side of dueling) out of ALL of the Jinx classes, Charms Master has 74 more Jinx damage than the highest Jinx damage class (Duelist), which may not seem like a lot, but once you take into consideration the extra 395 Charms damage, and the extra 267 Curse damage that charms master provides, it is just not worth it to choose duelist, even for the extra cooldown that you get on Jinx spells. This does not count any of the other classes.
The only reason it would be better to choose a different loadout in competitive or even casual play would be if one was to play healer, as none of the other classes offer nearly as much healing as the healer loadouts do, which is good, because that's what they're meant to do, same with curse and transfig loadouts.
Charms Master should not be the best (and literally only option for) loadout for Charms AND Jinx, and outshining any of the loadouts, that practically nobody uses.
Some tests I've ran using a default wizard alt as a dummy (0 defense) with the most common damage spells, those being Cascamorus, Baulectrium, Stupeficus, and Ignatium.
For simplicity sake, I will be comparing damage between Charms Master and Duelist, as they are both the best in their respective categories (Charms / Dueling), although still Duelist is considerably underwhelming compared to Charms Master.
Note: HS = Headshot, All tests were with 3 points in the spell. Red Text = Lower Damage, Green Text = Higher Damage
Cascamorus
Charms Master: HS 2926 | Body 1951
Duelist: HS 2707 | Body 1805
(Charms focused class should NOT be doing 219 more Jinx damage than the highest damage Jinx class.)
Baulectrium
Charms Master: 3566 (No bonus HS damage)
Duelist: 1764
*Usually not used for duelist loadout but the difference in the damage is major, considering that Duelist has the highest charms damage from the Jinx lineup
Stupeficus
Charms Master: HS 2975 | Body 1983
Duelist: HS 2328 | Body 1552
*A must have spell really, even though it is charms.
Ignatium
Charms Master: HS 2391 | Body 1594
Duelist: HS 2253 | Body 1502
Same issue as Casca, why does the Charms focused class have more Jinx damage?
[Charms Master beats Duelist in all forms of damage, Jinx and Charms being the numbers recorded]
This leads me to the second part of this thread.. balancing these loadouts.
Personally, I like where Duelist stands in terms of stats, but Charms Master is just an amped up version of that, it's to a point where the extra Jinx cooldown you get from the Duelist loadouts doesn't matter, as you can pick Charms master and you'll still be doing more damage. The extra debuff duration also allows spells like Stupeficus and Contagios to deal more damage, which makes them more viable using Charms Master, compared to increased knockback, and Charms Master offers a 7% higher range than Duelist.
I think that the damage on Charms Master needs to be reduced, Charms a bit, although it is a Charms focused class the damage is soo high. The Jinx damage should also be decreased, which I think is a better idea than buffing Jinx loadouts. I feel it would be unhealthy to up the damage on other loadouts, as damage creep will just make duels shorter, and people would just pick whichever loadout can kill others faster.
The thing with Jinx loadouts is that there is a purpose for each loadout, which gives you a reason to choose one over the other, as they are all around a similar damage output / each have their own specific use.
An example of this being Alchemist / Jinx Master, although I think that Alchemist could use the increased debuff duration, as it allows for Curse spells (Curse Damage), and would make it a bit more useful, while Jinx Master would benefit from the defensive cooldown that Alchemist currently gets.
Charms loadouts... you really just can't compare them to what Charms Master gives, especially with meta spells, Mage is the closest but still lacks a bunch of damage that Charms Master has.
There's not much I can say about Curse/Transfig loadouts, as there is so little of them being used, and I haven't gotten around to testing. I will probably start testing them as I've reached level 80 and will add them here if I do.
Please take this thread with a grain of salt, dueling is very stale at the moment, and the current state of loadouts does not allow for variety as it's mostly centered around Charms Master, and I'd like to know how the community feels about this
Your input would be appreciated and questions / feedback is appreciated.
I want to preface this thread by saying that I am by no means an expert in balancing or analytics, but from the research and analysis that I have done there is a crazy amount of imbalance in loadouts.
Charms Master is the ONLY loadout used for players who play Charms/Jinx, the exceptions only being the odd few (active) duelist that use warlock for curse, and healing loadouts like medicinal master, which Charms Master does not provide any decent stats for.
In my research / inquiring active duelist that I know, 24 out of 26 (That I know or have gotten a response from) use Charms Master as their main loadout, not counting secondary loadouts which are not used competitively for obvious reasons which I will go over below.
The main issue with Charms Master : Damage.
Charms Master blatantly outclasses all of the other Charms and Jinx loadouts (there's 6 of them combined and Charms Master is the only one seeing use from those in the more competitive side of dueling) out of ALL of the Jinx classes, Charms Master has 74 more Jinx damage than the highest Jinx damage class (Duelist), which may not seem like a lot, but once you take into consideration the extra 395 Charms damage, and the extra 267 Curse damage that charms master provides, it is just not worth it to choose duelist, even for the extra cooldown that you get on Jinx spells. This does not count any of the other classes.
The only reason it would be better to choose a different loadout in competitive or even casual play would be if one was to play healer, as none of the other classes offer nearly as much healing as the healer loadouts do, which is good, because that's what they're meant to do, same with curse and transfig loadouts.
Charms Master should not be the best (and literally only option for) loadout for Charms AND Jinx, and outshining any of the loadouts, that practically nobody uses.
Some tests I've ran using a default wizard alt as a dummy (0 defense) with the most common damage spells, those being Cascamorus, Baulectrium, Stupeficus, and Ignatium.
For simplicity sake, I will be comparing damage between Charms Master and Duelist, as they are both the best in their respective categories (Charms / Dueling), although still Duelist is considerably underwhelming compared to Charms Master.
Note: HS = Headshot, All tests were with 3 points in the spell. Red Text = Lower Damage, Green Text = Higher Damage
Cascamorus
Charms Master: HS 2926 | Body 1951
Duelist: HS 2707 | Body 1805
(Charms focused class should NOT be doing 219 more Jinx damage than the highest damage Jinx class.)
Baulectrium
Charms Master: 3566 (No bonus HS damage)
Duelist: 1764
*Usually not used for duelist loadout but the difference in the damage is major, considering that Duelist has the highest charms damage from the Jinx lineup
Stupeficus
Charms Master: HS 2975 | Body 1983
Duelist: HS 2328 | Body 1552
*A must have spell really, even though it is charms.
Ignatium
Charms Master: HS 2391 | Body 1594
Duelist: HS 2253 | Body 1502
Same issue as Casca, why does the Charms focused class have more Jinx damage?
[Charms Master beats Duelist in all forms of damage, Jinx and Charms being the numbers recorded]
This leads me to the second part of this thread.. balancing these loadouts.
Personally, I like where Duelist stands in terms of stats, but Charms Master is just an amped up version of that, it's to a point where the extra Jinx cooldown you get from the Duelist loadouts doesn't matter, as you can pick Charms master and you'll still be doing more damage. The extra debuff duration also allows spells like Stupeficus and Contagios to deal more damage, which makes them more viable using Charms Master, compared to increased knockback, and Charms Master offers a 7% higher range than Duelist.
I think that the damage on Charms Master needs to be reduced, Charms a bit, although it is a Charms focused class the damage is soo high. The Jinx damage should also be decreased, which I think is a better idea than buffing Jinx loadouts. I feel it would be unhealthy to up the damage on other loadouts, as damage creep will just make duels shorter, and people would just pick whichever loadout can kill others faster.
The thing with Jinx loadouts is that there is a purpose for each loadout, which gives you a reason to choose one over the other, as they are all around a similar damage output / each have their own specific use.
An example of this being Alchemist / Jinx Master, although I think that Alchemist could use the increased debuff duration, as it allows for Curse spells (Curse Damage), and would make it a bit more useful, while Jinx Master would benefit from the defensive cooldown that Alchemist currently gets.
Charms loadouts... you really just can't compare them to what Charms Master gives, especially with meta spells, Mage is the closest but still lacks a bunch of damage that Charms Master has.
There's not much I can say about Curse/Transfig loadouts, as there is so little of them being used, and I haven't gotten around to testing. I will probably start testing them as I've reached level 80 and will add them here if I do.
Please take this thread with a grain of salt, dueling is very stale at the moment, and the current state of loadouts does not allow for variety as it's mostly centered around Charms Master, and I'd like to know how the community feels about this
Your input would be appreciated and questions / feedback is appreciated.