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Quabbleball (yes, again) Rule Interpretation

TallBlondeDude

Librarian
Minecraft IGN: TallBlondeDude
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent Vampire Werewolf
#1
What is it:
Recently (Last 2 months or so), a new strategy has gained popularity among QB players. It is called ball stall, or when the defender tries to possess the ball the whole game. This reduces the total amount of possessions. At first glance, it appears to be a troll move as it hurts both sides, but this viewpoint lacks that the idea that quabbleball can be viewed as two separate but sometimes interacting games - the passer and the searcher games. By reducing total possessions, the searcher game has a higher impact (a +2 catches might be able to win instead of a +5). If you believe that your searcher will win the searcher duel and your passers will lose, it would be in your best interest to minimize passer impact. I have seen this strat hold top teir passers to less than 50 points at the cost of scoring very little if any, a task that is incredibly hard for a defender otherwise.

Counterplay:
The most obvious counterplay is the most effective: hitting the defender with a bruiser. This drops the ball rights next to a goal, so a decent passer can easily convert that into free points. A solid bruiser can render this strat counterproductive, as even though it is reducing total goals it is not reducing the goal differential. The other direct counterplay is having a passer steal the ball. The passer much already be in freefall when accomplishing this or they must throw it away to avoid it being restolen. A dropping passer should have a pretty easy close-range drop shot to make. The final counterplay is by far the simplest: don't let the defender get the ball. Careful play can result in the defender never having the chance to acquire the ball and hence never stalling.

So what's the problem?
Recently we have gotten different rulings on if this technique is allowed by different staff. A common ruling is game throwing, but it clearly helps your team if done at the correct time (As vouched by several top 20 LB players, including every active top 3 players). We would suggest that a ruling by a higher up be delivered on if this is allowed or not.
 

Lilian

Dragonologist
Minecraft IGN: Liyl
Auralock Dark Follower Serpent
#2
i have more plays than anyone on the server and literally every time someone's stalled in any game I've been in helped their team
 

Brandon_Everard

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: Thrashaba
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#3
I hold no opinion on the minigame or the ruling itself but I will add that the above has caused arguments between players in public chats (The /ch games chat gets heated sometimes) so I do agree that a defined ruling needs to be given and explained. It seems there are also quite a few players split on this topic, just like how it seems staff are according to the above, so once a conclusion comes out, I'm not sure if there is a way to make it more public so EVERYONE can be on the same page to make arguments less frequent over this.
 

Somnambulist

Librarian
Minecraft IGN: Psycho
Phoenix Raven Werewolf
#4
A Defender purposefully holding the quabbleball beyond 5 or 10 seconds kinda ruins the game. Assuming that there isn't a Bruiser to help, the Passer would have to be equally as fast or adjust their position quickly to grab the quabbleball from the Defender, who may in turn use their own grab skill to get the quabble back from the Passer.

The only way for Passers to score is to use the quabbleball, and if the Defender decides to hold the ball for a long period of time, it removes the Passer's method of scoring and reduces the amount of goals that they are able to make. That's a dirty strat and shouldn't be done as it ruins the game especially for the new players that may end up not joining the game again.

Regardless of the counter skills brought up that a Passer could be able to use to grab the quabbleball, I think that the main point here is that the Defender is there to block the ball from going into the goal, not to hold the quabbleball indefinitely.

Anyway, this isn't the only problem with Quabbleball, cause there are a couple other issues that should be discussed by Staff.

EDIT: If this ends up becoming a rule where Defender's shouldn't hold the quabbleball, then maybe a suggestion could be added where if the Defender has the quabbleball for over 10 seconds, then it respawns in the middle or drops to the ground below.
 

TallBlondeDude

Librarian
Minecraft IGN: TallBlondeDude
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent Vampire Werewolf
#5
A Defender purposefully holding the quabbleball beyond 5 or 10 seconds kinda ruins the game. Assuming that there isn't a Bruiser to help, the Passer would have to be equally as fast or adjust their position quickly to grab the quabbleball from the Defender, who may in turn use their own grab skill to get the quabble back from the Passer.

The only way for Passers to score is to use the quabbleball, and if the Defender decides to hold the ball for a long period of time, it removes the Passer's method of scoring and reduces the amount of goals that they are able to make. That's a dirty strat and shouldn't be done as it ruins the game especially for the new players that may end up not joining the game again.

Regardless of the counter skills brought up that a Passer could be able to use to grab the quabbleball, I think that the main point here is that the Defender is there to block the ball from going into the goal, not to hold the quabbleball indefinitely.

Anyway, this isn't the only problem with Quabbleball, cause there are a couple other issues that should be discussed by Staff.

EDIT: If this ends up becoming a rule where Defender's shouldn't hold the quabbleball, then maybe a suggestion could be added where if the Defender has the quabbleball for over 10 seconds, then it respawns in the middle or drops to the ground below.

Eh, Id argue it ruining the game is not basis for it to not be allowed. It has been pretty well established perma bruising both ruins the game by making it unplayable for the passer and is allowed.
 

Somnambulist

Librarian
Minecraft IGN: Psycho
Phoenix Raven Werewolf
#8
Eh, Id argue it ruining the game is not basis for it to not be allowed. It has been pretty well established perma bruising both ruins the game by making it unplayable for the passer and is allowed.
Yeah, though a Bruiser's role is to take down the Passer or Searcher, be it perm or not. A Defender blocks a goal, shouldn't keep the quabble.
 

mayu lettuce

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: mommymayu
Auralock Dark Follower Raven SPEW
#10
tbh its really annoying as a player bc you're helpless and have to rely on your searcher only (and if you don't have a searcher, that's sad), especially when your team doesn't have a bruiser. the stealing radius for passers is really small, so when you're up against a decent defender who knows what they're doing, the def can stall for minutes on end.

basically i agree and we should get a clear definition for the term 'trolling' !!
 

renne

Magician
Minecraft IGN: Reneelogies
Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent
#13
tbh its really annoying as a player bc you're helpless and have to rely on your searcher only (and if you don't have a searcher, that's sad), especially when your team doesn't have a bruiser. the stealing radius for passers is really small, so when you're up against a decent defender who knows what they're doing, the def can stall for minutes on end.

basically i agree and we should get a clear definition for the term 'trolling' !!
yeah
 

Joe_Magus

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Joe_Magus
Dark Follower Raven SPEW
#15
lol yeah getting it fixed would be 11/10 but at the same time it's a valid strat??
Yeh its true - for example, footballers hold the ball in the oppositions corner at the end of matches - forcing the opponent to knock it out for a throw or corner and holding possession. It is a valid strat in any game. But footballers don't spend 90 minutes doing it - At the end of the day it comes down to sportsmanship - and anyone doing a Full QB game doing this - is just ruining the game, making people less likely to play it often and all the other repercussions of that.

Maybe the real fix, is not stopping outright - but to cap it at an amount of time - 20-30 seconds - that is everytime the Defender gets the ball they could hold it for 20-30 seconds - this is 1/20th - 1/30th of the game.
It could even balance the game more when a Passer is being more cautious about their shot because they want to avoid the Defender holding possession for another 20 seconds

Really this shouldn't need to be fixed by people being a good sportsperson and not doing it - cause new players join everyday and if it isn't fixed - it will definitely just continue :') I think we need not an interpretation of the rules - when the game itself could be and should be balanced better. Just make it harder for Defenders to keep the ball or easier for Bruisers and Passers to take it from them.
 
Last edited:

pessimisticideas

New Magician
Minecraft IGN: McIncarceration
Dark Follower Serpent
#16
Yeah, though a Bruiser's role is to take down the Passer or Searcher, be it perm or not. A Defender blocks a goal, shouldn't keep the quabble.
From the perspective of a defender most people only do it when u really have no other choice? Like maybe the passer on your team is fairly new and isn't yet comparable to someone from the top 50 who's scoring 20 goals on end, in that scenario you can only rely on the searcher to help you out, you're not just gonna let the good passer keep throwing into your goals as a defender? keeping the ball on you is smarter than just throwing it back again and again and having to risk getting it into the goal every time they throw the ball at you.. Similar to perm bruising which is just as bad because bruisers ground people when they know their teammates aren't going to carry the game and I don't think the point of a bruiser was to completely make the other teams passer incapable of flying, since with a good enough bruiser this strat gives your team an instant win. I'm assuming you'd get it since were both bruiser mains and do it fairly often but in reality its the same concept as stalling when you're a good enough bruiser. All im saying is bruiser wasn't made to make passer a useless role, defender wasn't made to keep the ball for a minute or two, yet we both do it as a tactic to win.
 

mckenna varulv ❦

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: xokenna
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Raven Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#18
you're not just gonna let the good passer keep throwing into your goals as a defender? keeping the ball on you is smarter than just throwing it back again and again and having to risk getting it into the goal every time they throw the ball at you..
As a main defender, I agree. We don't stall the ball to troll, (at least most people don't) we do it as a game strategy. Now, I don't usually stall unless we are ahead in the game, because it allows the game to pause, and makes the other team unable to score to possibly tie the game. Many people stall the ball, i've even seen top-tier passers successfully stall the ball for awhile. And about new players possibly leaving the game, they already have a hard enough time with active, top-tier passers who are on almost everyday.
 

Deniz

Graduate
Minecraft IGN: DenizTM
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent Vampire VIP SPEW
#19
Hi!

I don't really play Quabbleball as much anymore, but I can definitely imagine the frustration with this strategy. I agree it's not considered trolling, so any punishments given out in the past for this will be pardoned (although I believe only one was given, and that was yesterday).

I do think that this needs a fix though, because it is an issue. In Soccer, goal keepers are only allowed to have the ball for 6 seconds. After speaking with a couple of other Quabbleball players (and with everything commented on here), I think the following two things could be beneficial to make the game feel smoother overall:

Pt. 1:
Change it so a Defender is only allowed to have the ball for 7 seconds. If it exceeds this, the Quaffle is dropped out of their inventory and their right-click receives a 3 second cooldown (so they can't snatch it back immediately).

Pt. 2:
This is more in terms of permanent-lock from Beaters, but, make it so when a player is knocked down by a Beater, they receive a 5-6 second protection where they cannot get knocked off again.

I barely play Quabbleball anymore so I don't want to make any changes before hearing what you guys (the experts) have to say :)

Please let me know! Also, now that we're on the topic of Quabbleball, I left a comment on this thread here that I'd love some more opinions on :)
 

Lilian

Dragonologist
Minecraft IGN: Liyl
Auralock Dark Follower Serpent
#20
Hi!

I don't really play Quabbleball as much anymore, but I can definitely imagine the frustration with this strategy. I agree it's not considered trolling, so any punishments given out in the past for this will be pardoned (although I believe only one was given, and that was yesterday).

I do think that this needs a fix though, because it is an issue. In Soccer, goal keepers are only allowed to have the ball for 6 seconds. After speaking with a couple of other Quabbleball players (and with everything commented on here), I think the following two things could be beneficial to make the game feel smoother overall:

Pt. 1:
Change it so a Defender is only allowed to have the ball for 7 seconds. If it exceeds this, the Quaffle is dropped out of their inventory and their right-click receives a 3 second cooldown (so they can't snatch it back immediately).

Pt. 2:
This is more in terms of permanent-lock from Beaters, but, make it so when a player is knocked down by a Beater, they receive a 5-6 second protection where they cannot get knocked off again.

I barely play Quabbleball anymore so I don't want to make any changes before hearing what you guys (the experts) have to say :)

Please let me know! Also, now that we're on the topic of Quabbleball, I left a comment on this thread here that I'd love some more opinions on :)
YOURE A GODSEND P2