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Droobletalk #3 - Revisiting

Ivan_

Professor
Minecraft IGN: _Navyy
Auralock Griffin Phoenix Vampire Werewolf
#1
Hi everybodi. This is the second time Im trying to write this, as I've accidentally deleted one hour worth of progress just now, so please keep that in mind. Before I begin, I wanna say that this time around Ive done some investigating with others and since my last droobletalk feedback I wrote a detailed thread on xp and leveling (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/leveling-then-vs-now.13872/) and Im glad that Drooble seemingly acknowledged it in this droobletalk.
Retrospective
The video starts with Drooble explaining everything that was added since revelius - 50 new quests, 1 town, new riddles, reputations (FYE, gauntlet and dungeon, events..). He points out that systems are not being cohesive and how everything they do, its just a temporary fix. I agree with this statement - gear was unsuccessful for PVP, spell trees were very incohesive, professions are useless..
When it comes to quests, reputations and riddles - I wanted to say how those arent really adding much to the content, theyre just adding a bit of variety to the content we already have. Once you do over 100+ quests, you start to get bored and realise how repetitive they are. I wont talk much about reputations as Ive already said enough (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/reputations.13325/) but basically theyre very repetitive, grindy and not innovative. Drooble mentions older quests "showing age" and how they've learned to make better quests over the time.. I kinda disagree, even tho theres some quests that do in fact show a lot of improvements like Rising healer quests, I cant ignore things like reputations, FYE, and certain event quests. Reputations I already mentioned, but theyre everything but an improvement for quests. I dont think I talked much about FYE on forums but for me, it was quite underwhelming, specifically because of the amount of time that went into it and how the final product came out. Months of work for 10 quests that arent even that good is quite disappointing. Another thing I want to add when it comes to quests and riddles is how the new generation of players heavily depend on so called "guides", which is technically a cheat. It does make things easier, but it takes away the gameplay aspect. Back when we had a new riddle every day, it was a activity for everyone to do, every day, people actually tried to solve them (and honestly, HP themed riddles are simply superior because even with zero experience on the server, you could know the answer). Nowadays, people dont even bother looking, they see the first few words and look in the guide or simply ask in the chat. And last thing I wanna add about quests is how the bosses are really unbalanced. The hardest bosses rn are definitely the rising healer ones (which is only lvl74), meanwhile some other bosses are so weak that you dont even get damaged if you stay far and theres a huge amount of bosses that can die to a single venonox which is crazy, so I think staff should revisit some of the older bosses and rebalance them.
Evergreen content - I noticed in this video how dungeons and gauntlets are often put to the side of things, when in reality, those are actually things that are evergreen. In fact, a lot of the evengreen content is not mentioned at all. Parkours, droppers, elytra and flying courses, minigames, dueling - those are the things that are evergreen, but yet, they get so little attention. The things that seem to get the most attention both in the video and the server gameplay wise are the quests, which if we think about it, arent "evengreen" in a way that you can always come back to them. You do them once and thats it. And the idea of repeatable quests shouldve been left behind years ago when it was first introduced with the Halloween event, but yet it was brought back with reputations. And many many of us believe that reputations (or any kind of repeatable quests/tasks) are really poor evergreen gameplay.
Next thing on the line is the map being too spread, I dont have much to comment on that because its true. I offered my own solution for this (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/broom-paths.14063/) which would lower the need to fill up the map.
Professions I talked about in my last feedback and I will touch a bit more on those later on (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/droobletalk-2-my-feedback.13047/)
And finally, Drooble says how they wanna wrap up with revelius first (the release of the last town), fix xp issue and continue with events which are all things I agree with.
Systems 2.0
Before I give in my thoughts, I will quickly explain what systems 2.0 is from my understanding. So basically, you will no longer get stats (such as health, damage etc.) from gear, you will gain those simply from leveling. Gear will continue to exists, but it would be used for defense stats. Subjects are replacing professions, and those will also give you additional stats as you level them up. One of the subjects will be runes, which will also give you additional stats as you find them around the world.
Im not too happy with this simply because I find it really hard to believe that its possible to balance all of those and make them cohesive (which is the goal). We have already seen how just gear has failed to do so in PVP after several reworks and loadouts. I cant see how a system with - 1.leveling stats + 2.subject stats (optional, vary with levels and type of subjects) + 3. rune stats (optional) + 4. gear defense stats + 5. talent stats - can be well balanced (especially with those pretty random numbers that we saw in the video). Not only that those stats will effect things like health and damage, it is also planned for those to effect things like magic, magic regen, crits etc. I really disagree with this, I see it ending up as a really really unpredictable and impossible to balance system. Dueling right now is fine, the community is happy how PVP works currently, so I really dont see a reason to mess with it after so many changes that we went thru to get here. I also dont like the fact that Drooble says how professions arent necessarily, but in reality, we all know that all duelists will try to max out their stats bc those stats that you get from subjects arent that small to be irrelevant. Plus, it literally says on the video how subject crafted items will be necessary. I already said on my last feedback how I dont like the idea of professions being necessary, and I would argue that those "extra" stats that they give do make them that.
Minecraft logic is something I already talked about and I agree with this type of thinking.
Mobs having shared drops - YES YES YES. I talked about this as well, but basically this will make it so that materials are much easier to keep up with and also all of them will have a demand - which is needed thing for the current economy. Back when all mobs had like ~12 possible ingredients to drop, all of those items had demand and pretty much all players were familiar with them and knew their worth.
Materials always being usefull - very similar to the last point, but i totally support this as again, it makes it so all of those items have a demand and are actually worth versus now where we have like 100+ materials and realistically only those for quests are being sold (and even those have a set demand, only a certain amount is needed for those quests)
Mobs being easier to defeat, but deadlier - Im really confused with this one - I dont know who gave out this information but mobs are everything but hard to defeat. With the right gear at the right level, you can 3 shot any mob, and lets not talk about how you can one shot any mob with a single venonox. Im not sure who works with those now, but this deserves its own discussion which isnt really suited for forums, but I would appreciate if someone reached out to me directly about this.
And lastly I want to reflect on what was said at the beginning of the system 2.0 part - It was said how systems 2.0 should reflect "what we have learned in the past 8 years" and how the "emphasis is on the freedom of choice". Im sorry, but this feels like a empty promise, simply because of how many times our feedback was handled. Someone mentioned recently how PW has never reversed a change, no matter how much negative feedback they recieved. I will use travel as an example- the warps were taken from us, the majority of people were unhappy, my own thread that suggested what reputations are today was declined two years ago, only for you to lock the warps behind reputations, so many "bandaid" fixes. Thats the opposite from freedom of choice and what you should have learned in the past 8 years. And before anyone comes here saying how they like reputations and the way travel works - you always had your freedom to walk or fly for miles if thats what you like.
MSL
To be honest, I never realised how much we have moved away from Hogwarts/school gameplay wise, and Im glad thats being changed with MSL as at the end of the day, this is what the server should be about. I hope PW menages to pull off a good storyline with quality quests to support it.
Final thoughts
First of all, I want to thank Drooble for addressing a lot of things I talked about in the last feedback - xp and leveling, talking about whats planned for professions and gear. I wish we talked more about evergreen content and how we could make quests even better. I would also like to hear more details about new materials and the whole crafting system. Another thing that should be addressed at some point as well is the lack of developers, the extinction of engineers, the current low popularity of the server and the decline of dueling playerbase.
 
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Kаilen

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: Kailen
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#4
If Revelius 2.0 ever releases I’ll rugby tackle the King dressed as a teletubbie; it took 2 years to develop something as basic as reputation and it’s not even fully released. Jay as much as I admire your passion my man, think it’s time to cut your losses.
 

Sticktrees

Graduate
Minecraft IGN: SmellyBigBro
Dark Follower Griffin
#5
Hi everybodi. This is the second time Im trying to write this, as I've accidentally deleted one hour worth of progress just now, so please keep that in mind. Before I begin, I wanna say that this time around Ive done some investigating with others and since my last droobletalk feedback I wrote a detailed thread on xp and leveling (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/leveling-then-vs-now.13872/) and Im glad that Drooble seemingly acknowledged it in this droobletalk.
Retrospective
The video starts with Drooble explaining everything that was added since revelius - 50 new quests, 1 town, new riddles, reputations (FYE, gauntlet and dungeon, events..). He points out that systems are not being cohesive and how everything they do, its just a temporary fix. I agree with this statement - gear was unsuccessful for PVP, spell trees were very incohesive, professions are useless..
When it comes to quests, reputations and riddles - I wanted to say how those arent really adding much to the content, theyre just adding a bit of variety to the content we already have. Once you do over 100+ quests, you start to get bored and realise how repetitive they are. I wont talk much about reputations as Ive already said enough (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/reputations.13325/) but basically theyre very repetitive, grindy and not innovative. Drooble mentions older quests "showing age" and how they've learned to make better quests over the time.. I kinda disagree, even tho theres some quests that do in fact show a lot of improvements like Rising healer quests, I cant ignore things like reputations, FYE, and certain event quests. Reputations I already mentioned, but theyre everything but an improvement for quests. I dont think I talked much about FYE on forums but for me, it was quite underwhelming, specifically because of the amount of time that went into it and how the final product came out. Months of work for 10 quests that arent even that good is quite disappointing. Another thing I want to add when it comes to quests and riddles is how the new generation of players heavily depend on so called "guides", which is technically a cheat. It does make things easier, but it takes away the gameplay aspect. Back when we had a new riddle every day, it was a activity for everyone to do, every day, people actually tried to solve them (and honestly, HP themed riddles are simply superior because even with zero experience on the server, you could know the answer). Nowadays, people dont even bother looking, they see the first few words and look in the guide or simply ask in the chat. And last thing I wanna add about quests is how the bosses are really unbalanced. The hardest bosses rn are definitely the rising healer ones (which is only lvl74), meanwhile some other bosses are so weak that you dont even get damaged if you stay far and theres a huge amount of bosses that can die to a single venonox which is crazy, so I think staff should revisit some of the older bosses and rebalance them.
Evergreen content - I noticed in this video how dungeons and gauntlets are often put to the side of things, when in reality, those are actually things that are evergreen. In fact, a lot of the evengreen content is not mentioned at all. Parkours, droppers, elytra and flying courses, minigames, dueling - those are the things that are evergreen, but yet, they get so little attention. The things that seem to get the most attention both in the video and the server gameplay wise are the quests, which if we think about it, arent "evengreen" in a way that you can always come back to them. You do them once and thats it. And the idea of repeatable quests shouldve been left behind years ago when it was first introduced with the Halloween event, but yet it was brought back with reputations. And many many of us believe that reputations (or any kind of repeatable quests/tasks) are really poor evergreen gameplay.
Next thing on the line is the map being too spread, I dont have much to comment on that because its true. I offered my own solution for this (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/broom-paths.14063/) which would lower the need to fill up the map.
Professions I talked about in my last feedback and I will touch a bit more on those later on (https://potterworldmc.com/threads/droobletalk-2-my-feedback.13047/)
And finally, Drooble says how they wanna wrap up with revelius first (the release of the last town), fix xp issue and continue with events which are all things I agree with.
Systems 2.0
Before I give in my thoughts, I will quickly explain what systems 2.0 is from my understanding. So basically, you will no longer get stats (such as health, damage etc.) from gear, you will gain those simply from leveling. Gear will continue to exists, but it would be used for defense stats. Subjects are replacing professions, and those will also give you additional stats as you level them up. One of the subjects will be runes, which will also give you additional stats as you find them around the world.
Im not too happy with this simply because I find it really hard to believe that its possible to balance all of those and make them cohesive (which is the goal). We have already seen how just gear has failed to do so in PVP after several reworks and loadouts. I cant see how a system with - 1.leveling stats + 2.subject stats (optional, vary with levels and type of subjects) + 3. rune stats (optional) + 4. gear defense stats + 5. talent stats - can be well balanced (especially with those pretty random numbers that we saw in the video). Not only that those stats will effect things like health and damage, it is also planned for those to effect things like magic, magic regen, crits etc. I really disagree with this, I see it ending up as a really really unpredictable and impossible to balance system. Dueling right now is fine, the community is happy how PVP works currently, so I really dont see a reason to mess with it after so many changes that we went thru to get here. I also dont like the fact that Drooble says how professions arent necessarily, but in reality, we all know that all duelists will try to max out their stats bc those stats that you get from subjects arent that small to be irrelevant. Plus, it literally says on the video how subject scarfed items will be necessary. I already said on my last feedback how I dont like the idea of professions being necessary, and I would argue that those "extra" stats that they give do make them that.
Minecraft logic is something I already talked about and I agree with this type of thinking.
Mobs having shared drops - YES YES YES. I talked about this as well, but basically this will make it so that materials are much easier to keep up with and also all of them will have a demand - which is needed thing for the current economy. Back when all mobs had like ~12 possible ingredients to drop, all of those items had demand and pretty much all players were familiar with them and knew their worth.
Materials always being usefull - very similar to the last point, but i totally support this as again, it makes it so all of those items have a demand and are actually worth versus now where we have like 100+ materials and realistically only those for quests are being sold (and even those have a set demand, only a certain amount is needed for those quests)
Mobs being easier to defeat, but deadlier - Im really confused with this one - I dont know who gave out this information but mobs are everything but hard to defeat. With the right gear at the right level, you can 3 shot any mob, and lets not talk about how you can one shot any mob with a single venonox. Im not sure who works with those now, but this deserves its own discussion which isnt really suited for forums, but I would appreciate if someone reached out to me directly about this.
And lastly I want to reflect on what was said at the beginning of the system 2.0 part - It was said how systems 2.0 should reflect "what we have learned in the past 8 years" and how the "emphasis is on the freedom of choice". Im sorry, but this feels like a empty promise, simply because of how many times our feedback was handled. Someone mentioned recently how PW has never reversed a change, no matter how much negative feedback they recieved. I will use travel as an example- the warps were taken from us, the majority of people were unhappy, my own thread that suggested what reputations are today was declined two years ago, only for you to lock the warps behind reputations, so many "bandaid" fixes. Thats the opposite from freedom of choice and what you should have learned in the past 8 years. And before anyone comes here saying how they like reputations and the way travel works - you always had your freedom to walk or fly for miles if thats what you like.
MSL
To be honest, I never realised how much we have moved away from Hogwarts/school gameplay wise, and Im glad thats being changed with MSL as at the end of the day, this is what the server should be about. I hope PW menages to pull off a good storyline with quality quests to support it.
Final thoughts
First of all, I want to thank Drooble for addressing a lot of things I talked about in the last feedback - xp and leveling, talking about whats planned for professions and gear. I wish we talked more about evergreen content and how we could make quests even better. I would also like to hear more details about new materials and the whole crafting system. Another thing that should be addressed at some point as well is the lack of developers, the extinction of engineers, the current low popularity of the server and the decline of dueling playerbase.
In general, I agree with what you are saying I just don't understand PW's decision to make a completely NEW system AGAIN for a game that doesn't have a good foundation. The issue with PW is that player retention is at an all-time low at around level 45, regardless of bosses and how weak they are the EXP gain is literally almost nothing. It has been like this for months and while they SAY they'll make efforts in order to change it chances are nothing will happen for another year at best. The GD team somewhat understands what they are doing in terms of tech but, creating a good MMO is something that's hard to do. I don't blame them for it but, the way they've been trying to fix it has been absolutely horrid. You don't create completely new systems for a game that doesn't have any good foundation, you are building on nothing, and eventually, the tower will crumble as it has for the past 3 years. FIX current systems is generally what I'm trying to say. It shouldn't be to hard to change EXP values unless there's something on the backend that I don't understand. I learned the hard way how hard it was to level going from a fresh new account to level 71ish. Levels 50+ were literal hell on earth, I've brought this up so many times and while they say change is coming the change is always some random fix that changes their game forever. It makes zero sense why they are making System 2.0. I'm basically just using your forum to platform my complaints and suggestions. Looking at this it was just a major rant but, is still valid.
 

Ivan_

Professor
Minecraft IGN: _Navyy
Auralock Griffin Phoenix Vampire Werewolf
#8
I'm basically just using your forum to platform my complaints and suggestions. Looking at this it was just a major rant but, is still valid.
-No, its good that you have an opinion and its absolutely valid.
-The time is an issue of course, especially right now - it always seems like wrong things are being prioritized.
-Systems 2.0 is supposed to fix the systems basically, and it is technically a new foundation (mainly for professions and the way stats work) but the concept that they have just seems so complex to balance imo.
-About XP, I pointed all of the issues in my other thread but I will tell u that there is one thing in the backend that is making the balancing job so much harder and thats the formulas they use for xp amounts. Those formulas are extremely complex on their own (for example one of the formulas is similar to this - 474,15 * e ^0.0994x) and its really hard to make a healthy system overall, if all of the independent ways of getting xp have such formulas (and then some systems like quests dont even have formulas and give a random number of xp). This is the same reason why Im personally not happy with the new stats because I can tell that they also use really complex math and it would just make balancing unnecessarily hard. When everyone has 10 hearts and 20 health, you cant really mess it up that much, but when you want players to have 100-10k health, a wide range of possible damage, crits, mana regen and all of those stats + defenses that come from gear, its really hard to not mess it up.
+ i just saw in the other thread that they still plan to involve potions in pvp and pve e.e