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Make Dueling Gear-Free

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nathan1e

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: nathan1e
Honeybadger Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Vampire Werewolf SPEW
#41
I've kept quiet while watching this thread, simply because I did not think I had much of value to offer. I don't have much to say on the topic at hand because I don't generally duel, so I can't really have a good opinion on whether gear is good for it or not. However, a few things have been said throughout this thread that I now find worthy replying to, which is exactly what I'll be doing.
I think we can all agree that systems where everyone had equivalent HP were preferred.
You don't know that nor do you have anything to back you up. Yes, there is a considerate amount of people who think this but that doesn't mean it's the general opinion. I don't think it's very productive to claim something like this when you're trying to get a suggestion implemented.
Just saying, this thread is getting A LOT of support. I really hope this gets implemented...
The amount of support isn't necessarily the biggest determining factor when staff decides on accepting a suggestion or not. While I admire your optimism, you can just look back at all the suggestions in the past about bringing back the survival server (for example). There's still a big group of people who want to see that returned, but it doesn't because the staff team doesn't want it returned. No matter how big the support on any of those suggestions, that just isn't going to happen. Don't take this personal, but I'm just saying, while it's true that this thread is getting a big amount of support, it doesn't necessarily change anything.
new realization: Revelius Part 1 returned the server to players having equivalent health and stats in dueling. Around that time, a bunch of duelists came flooding back. Now we're seeing the duelists leave once more... I don't want to jump to conclusions but I think the dueling community prefers the systems with equal stats so much more that they don't want to play otherwise...
That, or they just haven't come to the point where they are what Flip describes as the type of people that he envisions as the type of people that duel on PW: those with max level and good gear. I think that a system like this one takes time to really get used to for the entire playerbase. This takes longer for some people than for others, as a lot of things (if not everything) has changed. I simply don't think you can judge this system based on how it's been since the release of revelius, as a month hasn't even passed for players to truly have gotten used to all the new stuff, in my opinion.
Placing my bets now that this'll be declined. Just saying, this has a LOT of support and the only negative backlash was from Fliiipendo himself.
I don't believe Flip actually gave negative backlash towards the suggestion itself in the post from him preceding this one. As far as I could gather, he was merely shedding light on what seemed to have been a slight case of miscommunication, nothing more.
If highly valued suggestions by the community aren't accepted, then maybe having Feedback & Suggestions is pointless.
I don't know whether you were there or not when this occurred, but around the time Quabbleball got released there were A LOT of people asking for randomised teams. There were a good number of uservoice suggestions and even an official poll that seemed to point at the idea that this was really something the community wanted. But it never happened. My point? Sometimes ideas that are highly valued by the community get declined, that's just the sort of thing that happens. I don't think you "placing your bet on it" now that it hasn't been declined yet isn't doing much when it comes to potentially getting this suggestion accepted.

And to be honest, from what I've read throughout Flip's post, if I were to bet I'd be putting my money on declining with the given reasoning that a different "solution" was already implemented, since a different "solution" is exactly what seems to be coming in PW's direction according to Flip's post.
TLDR: Community wants this so if they decline it then the staff team doesn't value the community's opinions... :(
I really don't see a correlation between these 2 things. The fact that popular suggestions are declined does not, in my opinion, in any way or form mean that the staff team doesn't value the community's opinion. Instead, I believe it just means that the staff team uses its position to respectfully disagree with their playerbase. And at the end of the day, they are the people that run this server, so they get to decide what happens with it. The fact that they decide to do something different than what the playerbase is asking for, doesn't mean they don't value such an opinion, in my opinion.
21 likes. The community immensely enjoys this suggestion!
The community is a lot bigger than 21 people. Yes, your suggestion is getting a lot of attention, but it's unfair to say that the entire community enjoys your suggestion.
As I said earlier, I, for one, don't really care what happens to dueling and I know a lot of people who don't either. Your post may be popular within the dueling community, that doesn't necessarily mean it's popular in the entire community.
There's two pages of replies saying we want it changed, so if you're going in the direction the community wants???????
This argument would be a plausible one if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people have replied multiple times to this thread. Including your original post, you have sent 14 forum posts in total within this thread alone. The "2 pages of replies" argument only really serves to prove a point about this topic causing a lot of discussion, but in my opinion, not at all about the amount of people in favor of this suggestion.
I feel that I have addressed your concerns, so I would like you to hear out mine. This thread is a large example of mob mentality and confirmation bias. The majority of players who have replied to this thread are showing support, so naturally the other side will not speak up. Out of all the page views, barely 7% of thread viewers have shown their support for this idea. Now, there are definitely those who support this idea without showing it, but in the future please keep in mind that there quite possibly could be a silent majority. I might be wrong in saying that too and, if I am, I can only hope to change that with future content updates.
I don't believe in your "everyone who replied supports this idea so the other side will of course be quiet" argument. I think a more plausible explanation is given when it comes to what I've said before, that there is simply a considerable amount of players who simply don't care about the topic and therefore avoid this thread as they don't have much of value to add.
I don't think it's fair to compare thread views with replies either. I don't know whether you've taken into consideration what I said before about people replying to this thread multiple times, but the same can be said especially about thread views. People revisit threads when new comments have been posted, so for me this "7%" really doesn't say much. Even through all of the possible flaws in statistics, it still has to be said that this thread is getting a lot of support for a "mere" forum suggestion. There are barely any other forum suggestions that have the same amount of likes and original replying players as this one, so in that respect, Avi does have somewhat of a point when it comes to playerbase support.

That's everything I had to say so far, and as always it's good to point out that none of this is personal, they are mere opinions on the topics that have been brought up so far while I have nothing against the people that have stated them whatsoever.
 

Flippy

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: FLiiiPENDO
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix VIP
#42
I don't believe in your "everyone who replied supports this idea so the other side will of course be quiet" argument. I think a more plausible explanation is given when it comes to what I've said before, that there is simply a considerable amount of players who simply don't care about the topic and therefore avoid this thread as they don't have much of value to add.
Correct, I should have included that too. I'd also like to note that I used the amount of likes on the original post as a measure of support. The part about replies was in reference to the mob mentality.

I don't think it's fair to compare thread views with replies either. I don't know whether you've taken into consideration what I said before about people replying to this thread multiple times, but the same can be said especially about thread views. People revisit threads when new comments have been posted, so for me this "7%" really doesn't say much. Even through all of the possible flaws in statistics, it still has to be said that this thread is getting a lot of support for a "mere" forum suggestion. There are barely any other forum suggestions that have the same amount of likes and original replying players as this one, so in that respect, Avi does have somewhat of a point when it comes to playerbase support.
I believe I checked unique viewers. Also, I think this thread has received more attention largely due to it regarding an issue that affects all players.
 

Aviforma

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Aviforma
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent SPEW
#43
I've kept quiet while watching this thread, simply because I did not think I had much of value to offer. I don't have much to say on the topic at hand because I don't generally duel, so I can't really have a good opinion on whether gear is good for it or not. However, a few things have been said throughout this thread that I now find worthy replying to, which is exactly what I'll be doing.

You don't know that nor do you have anything to back you up. Yes, there is a considerate amount of people who think this but that doesn't mean it's the general opinion. I don't think it's very productive to claim something like this when you're trying to get a suggestion implemented.
As someone who's friends with the majority of the dueling community, I can tell you this: there was a sigh of relief breathed when Revelius Part 1 dropped. Many of the server's old duelists came flooding back, and we got new players within the community. That's enough evidence for me personally.

The amount of support isn't necessarily the biggest determining factor when staff decides on accepting a suggestion or not. While I admire your optimism, you can just look back at all the suggestions in the past about bringing back the survival server (for example). There's still a big group of people who want to see that returned, but it doesn't because the staff team doesn't want it returned. No matter how big the support on any of those suggestions, that just isn't going to happen. Don't take this personal, but I'm just saying, while it's true that this thread is getting a big amount of support, it doesn't necessarily change anything.
That's kinda the issue lmao

That, or they just haven't come to the point where they are what Flip describes as the type of people that he envisions as the type of people that duel on PW: those with max level and good gear. I think that a system like this one takes time to really get used to for the entire playerbase. This takes longer for some people than for others, as a lot of things (if not everything) has changed. I simply don't think you can judge this system based on how it's been since the release of revelius, as a month hasn't even passed for players to truly have gotten used to all the new stuff, in my opinion.

I don't believe Flip actually gave negative backlash towards the suggestion itself in the post from him preceding this one. As far as I could gather, he was merely shedding light on what seemed to have been a slight case of miscommunication, nothing more.

I don't know whether you were there or not when this occurred, but around the time Quabbleball got released there were A LOT of people asking for randomised teams. There were a good number of uservoice suggestions and even an official poll that seemed to point at the idea that this was really something the community wanted. But it never happened. My point? Sometimes ideas that are highly valued by the community get declined, that's just the sort of thing that happens. I don't think you "placing your bet on it" now that it hasn't been declined yet isn't doing much when it comes to potentially getting this suggestion accepted.

And to be honest, from what I've read throughout Flip's post, if I were to bet I'd be putting my money on declining with the given reasoning that a different "solution" was already implemented, since a different "solution" is exactly what seems to be coming in PW's direction according to Flip's post.

I really don't see a correlation between these 2 things. The fact that popular suggestions are declined does not, in my opinion, in any way or form mean that the staff team doesn't value the community's opinion. Instead, I believe it just means that the staff team uses its position to respectfully disagree with their playerbase. And at the end of the day, they are the people that run this server, so they get to decide what happens with it. The fact that they decide to do something different than what the playerbase is asking for, doesn't mean they don't value such an opinion, in my opinion.

The community is a lot bigger than 21 people. Yes, your suggestion is getting a lot of attention, but it's unfair to say that the entire community enjoys your suggestion.
As I said earlier, I, for one, don't really care what happens to dueling and I know a lot of people who don't either. Your post may be popular within the dueling community, that doesn't necessarily mean it's popular in the entire community.

This argument would be a plausible one if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of people have replied multiple times to this thread. Including your original post, you have sent 14 forum posts in total within this thread alone. The "2 pages of replies" argument only really serves to prove a point about this topic causing a lot of discussion, but in my opinion, not at all about the amount of people in favor of this suggestion.

I don't believe in your "everyone who replied supports this idea so the other side will of course be quiet" argument. I think a more plausible explanation is given when it comes to what I've said before, that there is simply a considerable amount of players who simply don't care about the topic and therefore avoid this thread as they don't have much of value to add.
I don't think it's fair to compare thread views with replies either. I don't know whether you've taken into consideration what I said before about people replying to this thread multiple times, but the same can be said especially about thread views. People revisit threads when new comments have been posted, so for me this "7%" really doesn't say much. Even through all of the possible flaws in statistics, it still has to be said that this thread is getting a lot of support for a "mere" forum suggestion. There are barely any other forum suggestions that have the same amount of likes and original replying players as this one, so in that respect, Avi does have somewhat of a point when it comes to playerbase support.

That's everything I had to say so far, and as always it's good to point out that none of this is personal, they are mere opinions on the topics that have been brought up so far while I have nothing against the people that have stated them whatsoever.
The issue here is that nobody's voiced a negative opinion (except flipendo himself and matty advertising his own thread) on the concept. At the moment it's unanimous. This is one of the largest threads AND it has no negative feedback (on the concept) from the players.
 

Aviforma

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Aviforma
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent SPEW
#44
I feel that I have addressed your concerns, so I would like you to hear out mine. This thread is a large example of mob mentality and confirmation bias. The majority of players who have replied to this thread are showing support, so naturally the other side will not speak up. Out of all the page views, barely 7% of thread viewers have shown their support for this idea. Now, there are definitely those who support this idea without showing it, but in the future please keep in mind that there quite possibly could be a silent majority. I might be wrong in saying that too and, if I am, I can only hope to change that with future content updates.
I've seen objections on large threads before. The fact that this has gone unanimous (except for you) should speak for itself. Additionally, this isn't an example of confirmation bias. I'm not interpreting others beliefs in such a fashion that they align with my own; all the replies to this thread HAVE aligned with my own. And that 7% number? Can you show us the statistics on other threads of this magnitude too? Otherwise it's an empty statistic if there's no control variable along with it. The fact that this is an idea the community supports still stands, and you've vetoed it.
 

Flippy

Notable Magician
Minecraft IGN: FLiiiPENDO
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix VIP
#45
Additionally, this isn't an example of confirmation bias. I'm not interpreting others beliefs in such a fashion that they align with my own; all the replies to this thread HAVE aligned with my own.
Confirmation bias includes preaching to the choir. Most of those who reply to threads (on any forum) agree with the it. My point was that you cannot use one thread's responses as a measure of the entire community's opinions.

And that 7% number? Can you show us the statistics on other threads of this magnitude too? Otherwise it's an empty statistic if there's no control variable along with it. The fact that this is an idea the community supports still stands, and you've vetoed it.
For examples of threads with almost unanimous support:
Hogsworth -> Hogsend Boat Travel - 20% support
Feedback: General annoyance with the new update - 11% support

Warp (Hear me out pls) - 18% support
More Music Bots - 27% support
New quest idea! - 10% support
Mass sell recipes - 35% support

I don't even believe there's enough there for a proper sample size, however those are the first 6 I found with close to unanimous support and all of them have more support than this suggestion.

As someone who's friends with the majority of the dueling community, I can tell you this: there was a sigh of relief breathed when Revelius Part 1 dropped. Many of the server's old duelists came flooding back, and we got new players within the community. That's enough evidence for me personally.
You cannot tell others they need evidence when your evidence is based on your memory, not facts. Within the months following Revelius Part 1, the server consistently had it's lowest player count per day. Now we have 2.5x that amount of players everyday, and that's not just due to lockdown or holidays, because we still have a higher player count than this time last year, when Revelius Part 1 released.

That's kinda the issue lmao
You're saying the issue is staff don't listen to every single suggestion the community posts on this forum, even if it has unanimous support. As Nathan mentioned, the survival server received unanimous support too. Problem is, it's not viable for us as the team creating this game, and neither is your suggestion.

This is the last time I will reply here, so I'll reiterate my comment from earlier, for the full comment click here: Gear will not be removed from PvP, but we are releasing adjustments later this month or early next month that we hope will fix this issue. If the issue is not fixed, we'll continue making adjustments until we're happy with the state of gear. Revelius is NOT the end of Potterworld updates, and we plan to release more content very often moving forward.
 

Nik_Blazius

Magician
Minecraft IGN: Nik_Blazius
Honeybadger
#46
I can only repeat myself. This is Potterworld not Potter's Wynncraft. I believe (and it's also logical) that spells should have the most significant role and everything else should be marginal. I made a thread about more natural spell levels and I got the information that something similar was in the past. Why? Because it was and still is logical! I believe having gears is a change, not an improvement.
However, it would be crazy to remove the whole gear system, there is a lot of work in it, but I would reduce it's importance. There are good ideas about it in Matty's thread for example.

Now, we have 2.5x that amount of players everyday, and that's not just due to lockdown or holidays, because we still have a higher player count than this time last year, when Revelius Part 1 released.
The update was very hyped, I stayed because I knew there would be changes, but I didn't know anything about them. I believe players play on the server because there are more opportunities now than it was before the update. I played some days before the update and it was really boring, I could do nothing. Now, there are quests which is great to spend time with, but it could also work without gears. Personally I don't care about gears at all, I'm just using them, I could totally exist without them.
Another thoughts regarding to this: Is it better to be loyal to the Harry Potter world and using systems that were loved in the past or giving up on HP and having more players?

Regarding to the battle about supporters and haters of this topic that don't write comments: What about an offical, transparent voting that could be announced on the website and in Discord? I believe it wouldn't hurt anybody and we could clearly see the truth.
 
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Aviforma

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Aviforma
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent SPEW
#47
Confirmation bias includes preaching to the choir. Most of those who reply to threads (on any forum) agree with the it. My point was that you cannot use one thread's responses as a measure of the entire community's opinions.
"Confirmation bias occurs when a person interprets a situation according to their own pre-existing beliefs." That's the literal definition.

For examples of threads with almost unanimous support:
Hogsworth -> Hogsend Boat Travel - 20% support
Feedback: General annoyance with the new update - 11% support

Warp (Hear me out pls) - 18% support
More Music Bots - 27% support
New quest idea! - 10% support
Mass sell recipes - 35% support

I don't even believe there's enough there for a proper sample size, however those are the first 6 I found with close to unanimous support and all of them have more support than this suggestion.
Given the smaller niche community that is dueling, it makes sense for it to be a couple percentage points lower. Only 5% of the server (if even) duels on a consistent basis.

You cannot tell others they need evidence when your evidence is based on your memory, not facts. Within the months following Revelius Part 1, the server consistently had it's lowest player count per day. Now we have 2.5x that amount of players everyday, and that's not just due to lockdown or holidays, because we still have a higher player count than this time last year, when Revelius Part 1 released.
Lockdown's still going on. Covid-19 still exists. People are still in quarantine. The spike in players is still going on. And I was talking SPECIFICALLY about the dueling players, who are not indicative of the server as a whole. The fact remains that a large portion if not most of the dueling community is still leaving the server due to gear-based dueling.


You're saying the issue is staff don't listen to every single suggestion the community posts on this forum, even if it has unanimous support. As Nathan mentioned, the survival server received unanimous support too. Problem is, it's not viable for us as the team creating this game, and neither is your suggestion.
There's no reason my suggestion isn't viable. It's an easy fix that would majorly benefit dueling as a whole.
 

luckiestblock

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: luckiestblock
Honeybadger
#48
I, like Nathan, am not a dueler and have stayed out of this conversation up until now because of this, but now, over 45 replies in I would like to offer my perspective from that of a graduate, casual dueling class attendee, scarf mad man.

First I would like to say that on the overall issue I like the concept of gear. It allows for the diversification and specialization of players which is always nice. I like that when you are fighting high lvl mobs with low lvl gear you get stomped :D . It makes it so there is a true feeling of getting stronger as mobs that used to one shot you now get one shoted by you! What I don't like is the crazy health difference in dueling because it means most duels are over in seconds and lower lvl players have essentially a 0% chance. I know that is how it works in many other mmorpgs but to quote therblaze.
This is Potterworld not Potter's Wynncraft
spells should have the most significant role
In the final Harry Potter book Harry does not win the final duel with you know who because he has the most shiny trinket or the best boots. He wins because he has the wits, courage, and spell knowledge! I don't see why it should be any different on Potterworld.

The fact that this has gone unanimous (except for you) should speak for itself.
This thread is a large example of mob mentality and confirmation bias. The majority of players who have replied to this thread are showing support, so naturally the other side will not speak up. Out of all the page views, barely 7% of thread viewers have shown their support for this idea. Now, there are definitely those who support this idea without showing it, but in the future please keep in mind that there quite possibly could be a silent majority.
"Confirmation bias occurs when a person interprets a situation according to their own pre-existing beliefs." That's the literal definition.

Given the smaller niche community that is dueling, it makes sense for it to be a couple percentage points lower. Only 5% of the server (if even) duels on a consistent basis.
I think a big part of this thread is measuring the popularity of this suggestion itself which I think is a little strange and counterproductive; the more time you spend arguing about how popular your idea is the less time you spend talking about your idea itself. Anyways who is right here? Avi says that pretty much everyone except Flip likes the suggestion and therefore it should be implemented and Flip says that there is infact a silent majority which means that negative support exists but it is suppressed by the overwhelming positive support of the comments. For me, personally, I think it is all hearsay! :D A lot of people have liked these posts but a lot of them have not and there is no way to prove a silent majority exists other then anecdotes which can always be refuted by more anecdotes.

I think the only way forward is a poll on Discord. That way all of the nonsense clears and we can see really what the community thinks. In that poll there should be three options:
Keep Gear in Dueling (making small changes to balance it)
Keep Gear In Dueling but remove the increased health, damage, and healing
Remove Gear From Dueling Altogether

If you are curious how I would vote in this hypothetical poll it would be the second option. I don't know how technically possible it would be but I feel many people (including myself) feel this way. I like the concept of gear but I don't like how it is completely the deciding factor and I wish the health, damage, and healing would be removed from gear in PvP. I think that is a pretty reasonable position and is a compromise from completely removing gear and staying as is with minor modifications.
 

Aviforma

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Aviforma
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent SPEW
#49
I think the only way forward is a poll on Discord. That way all of the nonsense clears and we can see really what the community thinks. In that poll there should be three options:
Keep Gear in Dueling (making small changes to balance it)
Keep Gear In Dueling but remove the increased health, damage, and healing
Remove Gear From Dueling Altogether
I am 100% for a poll. In fact, I even suggested one earlier! However, I think you'll be hard-pressed to convince Flipendo to allow one. He has declared his ultimatum of not removing gear, and his veto still takes precedence over the community's will.
 

Zadanthalion

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: ZADANeth
Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix
#50
Let me preface with this: I miss dueling. I miss the insane combos, the shouting matches in team chats at tournaments. I miss matchups being skill based, not just gear based. I miss the crazy tactics people would come up with, like timing Vanesco and a Meteor. Using Restringo and Lumen to trap someone in the floor. Maintaining a Colorovio shield while trying to frantically heal each other. Timing spells midair to force fall damage onto people. You can still do some of these things, but they aren't the same anymore. What had been a beautiful art form comprised solely of skill and style now feels like an arm wrestle of just brute force.

I propose: remove gear from dueling. When players are dueling, make gear not take effect (or at least an option to have this!) Many people from the Dueling Community are leaving because it isn't fun to duel anymore. Please, I beg of you: remove gear from dueling.
Definitly support this one. Gear advantages are so OP that it makes it not even worth it to try.
 

SushiIsSlow

Magician
Minecraft IGN: _Duck_Duck_Goose
Auralock Dark Follower Griffin Phoenix
#51
I used to enjoy duelling class. I know i was bad at it, but I stilled enjoyed it. I wasn't just one-shot because I don't have good enough gear. I just wish I could get on potterworld, go to duelling class and actually enjoy it. I'm going to be honest, the only time i get on is to play melting floor, and that's only when I'm really bored. I just want to be able to do the thing I enjoy without having to grind for hours and hours on end.
 

MattyPoltergeist

Professor
Minecraft IGN: MattyPoltergeist
Serpent Werewolf
#56
idk if i've said it here already but dueling with the current set up (without gear) is just as broken/even more than dueling without gear... a lvl 80 can 1 shot a lvl 80... like i dont like gear as much as the next guy but this aint it cheif
 

Aviforma

Animorphus
Minecraft IGN: Aviforma
Auralock Dark Follower Phoenix Serpent SPEW
#57
idk if i've said it here already but dueling with the current set up (without gear) is just as broken/even more than dueling without gear... a lvl 80 can 1 shot a lvl 80... like i dont like gear as much as the next guy but this aint it cheif
bro they can run different magic versions on different servers flip did player playtesting for rev part 1 with that
 
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